Volume requirements for cardiac surgery credentialing: a critical examination. The Ad Hoc Committee on Cardiac Surgery Credentialing of The Society of Thoracic Surgeons

Practice makes perfect? Institutional coronary artery bypass case volumes and outcomes

OBJECTIVES

Older studies of coronary artery bypass grafting (CABG) institutional case volumes and outcomes reported conflicting results. We explored this association in the rapidly changing contemporary practice of American surgeons using the Society of Thoracic Surgeons (STS) Adult Cardiac Surgery Database.

METHODS

The 2018-2019 isolated primary CABG experience in the STS Adult Cardiac Surgery Database was analysed (241 902 patients; 1014 hospitals; 2718 surgeons). Generalized Estimating Equations were used to estimate coefficients between CABG institutional case volumes and outcomes. The observed-to-expected ratios based on STS risk models were used to assess risk-adjusted operative mortality (OM), mortality/major morbidity (MM) and deep sternal wound infections (DSWI) as a function of institutional case volumes.

RESULTS

The mean (standard deviation) OM, MM and DSWI rates were 2.1% (2.7), 11.1% (9.2) and 0.6% (0.5), respectively. The mean (standard deviation) institutional case volumes per study period was 239 (192); 23% and 9% of institutions performed <100 and >500 cases/study period, respectively. There was a weak negative correlation between expected mortality (R2 -0.0014), OM (R2 -0.0272), MM (R2 -0.1213) and DSWI (R2 -0.003) and institutional case volumes.

CONCLUSIONS

CABG outcomes generally improve with increasing institutional case volumes. Given the large number of CABG cases performed nationally, even the documented weak correlation has the potential to appreciably decrease OM, MM and DSWI if cases are performed at higher volume institutions. Studies focusing on additional hospital and surgeon factors are warranted to further define quality improvement opportunities.

Volume-Outcome Relationship of Resternotomy Coronary Artery Bypass Grafting

BACKGROUND

We assessed volume-outcome relationships of resternotomy coronary artery bypass grafting (CABG).

METHODS

We studied 1,362,218 first-time CABG and 93,985 resternotomy CABG patients reported to The Society of Thoracic Surgeons Adult Cardiac Surgery Database between 2010 and 2019. Primary outcomes were in-hospital mortality and mortality and morbidity (M&M) rates calculated per hospital and per surgeon. Outcomes were compared across 6 total cardiac surgery volume categories. Multivariable generalized linear mixed-effects models were used considering continuous case volume as the main exposure, adjusting for patient characteristics and within-surgeon and hospital variation.

RESULTS

We observed a decline in resternotomy CABG unadjusted mortality and M&M from the lowest to the highest case-volume categories (hospital-level mortality, 3.9% ± 0.6% to 3.3% ± 0.1%; M&M, 18.5% ± 1.1% to 15.7% ± 0.4%, P < .001; surgeon-level mortality, 4.1% ± 0.3% to 4.1% ± 1.3%; M&M, 18.5% ± 0.6% to 14.5% ± 2.2%, P < .001). Looking at outcomes vs continuous volume showed that beyond a minimum annual volume (hospital 200-300 cases; surgeon 100-150 cases, approximately), mortality and M&M rates did not further improve. Using individual-level data and adjusting for patient characteristics and clustering within surgeon and hospital, we found higher procedural volume was associated with improved surgeon-level outcomes (mortality adjusted odds ratio, 0.39/100 procedures; 95% CI, 0.24-0.61; M&M adjusted odds ratio, 0.37/100 procedures; 95% CI, 0.28-0.48; P < .001 for both). Hospital-level adjusted volume-outcomes associations were not statistically significant.

CONCLUSIONS

We observed an inverse relationship between total cardiac case volume and resternotomy CABG outcomes at the surgeon level only, indicating that individual surgeon's experience, rather than institutional volume, is the key determinant.

2021 CSANZ and ANZSCTS Position Statement on the Operator and Institutional Requirements for a Transcatheter Aortic Valve Implantation (TAVI) Program in Australia

This document establishes the minimum standard for accreditation of institutions and operators as endorsed by the Cardiac Society of Australia and New Zealand (CSANZ) and the Australian and New Zealand Society of Cardiac and Thoracic Surgeons (ANZSCTS). The original Joint Society Position Statement was ratified in August 2014. This 2021 update replaces the original and serves as a consensus within which the Conjoint Committee for Trancatheter Aortic Valve Implantation (TAVI) Accreditation will function, as recommended by Medical Services Advisory Committee (MSAC) Determination for TAVI. This is not a Guideline Statement but takes into consideration regional, legislative, and health system factors important to establishing requirements for TAVI accreditation in Australia.

Maintaining Quality in Lower Volume Cardiac Surgery: A Blueprint From a Military Program

Although there is a clear volume-outcome relationship in the field of cardiac surgery, the existence of high-performing programs with relatively low case volumes is well established. This report describes the programmatic and institutional processes in place at a lower volume cardiac surgery center in a US military hospital, which have been executed to optimally leverage available resources in the delivery of exemplary patient care. By implementing a highly collaborative practice, rigorous outcomes review, evidence-based standardized care pathways, consistent attending surgeon oversight for care delivery, careful case selection, and a mechanism for support from highly experienced outside cardiac surgeons, the cardiac surgery program at the authors' institution delivers care on par with its higher volume counterparts. A review of these practices and available supporting evidence may provide a model for other programs seeking success in this setting.

Quality Markers in Cardiology. Main Markers to Measure Quality of Results (Outcomes) and Quality Measures Related to Better Results in Clinical Practice (Performance Metrics). INCARDIO (Indicadores de Calidad en Unidades Asistenciales del Área del Corazón): A SEC/SECTCV Consensus Position Paper

Cardiology practice requires complex organization that impacts overall outcomes and may differ substantially among hospitals and communities. The aim of this consensus document is to define quality markers in cardiology, including markers to measure the quality of results (outcomes metrics) and quality measures related to better results in clinical practice (performance metrics). The document is mainly intended for the Spanish health care system and may serve as a basis for similar documents in other countries.

[Anaesthetists learn--do institutions also learn? Importance of institutional learning and corporate culture in clinics]

In only a few contexts is the need for substantial learning more pronounced than in health care. For a health care provider, the ability to learn is essential in a changing environment. Although individual humans are programmed to learn naturally, organisations are not. Learning that is limited to individual professions and traditional approaches to continuing medical education is not sufficient to bring about substantial changes in the learning capacity of an institution. Also, organisational learning is an important issue for anaesthesia departments. Future success of an organisation often depends on new capabilities and competencies. Organisational learning is the capacity or processes within an organisation to maintain or improve performance based on experience. Learning is seen as a system-level phenomenon as it stays in the organisation regardless of the players involved. Experience from other industries shows that learning strategies tend to focus on single loop learning, with relatively little double loop learning and virtually no meta-learning or non-learning. The emphasis on team delivery of health care reinforces the need for team learning. Learning organisations make learning an intrinsic part of their organisations and are a place where people continually learn how to learn together. Organisational learning practice can help to improve existing skills and competencies and to change outdated assumptions, procedures and structures. So far, learning theory has been ignored in medicine, due to a wide variety of complex political, economic, social, organisational culture and medical factors that prevent innovation and resist change. The organisational culture is central to every stage of the learning process. Learning organisations move beyond simple employee training into organisational problem solving, innovation and learning. Therefore, teamwork and leadership are necessary. Successful organisations change the competencies of individuals, the systems, the organisation, the strategy and the culture.

[Minimum provider volumes in heart surgery]

The introduction of minimum provider volumes for certain medical procedures has been the subject of scientific investigation and political controversy for quite a while. The core of the discussion focuses on the hypothesis that minimum provider volumes could significantly improve operative results and cost efficiency. In Germany the Fifth Volume of Social Law (Sozialgesetzbuch V) set the legal stage for the implementation of minimum provider volumes. This article is a brief review on the experience with minimum provider volumes in cardiac surgery. The main focus is on coronary artery bypass surgery, as this happens to be the most frequently investigated procedure.

Cardiac Surgery Risk Models: A Position Article

Differences in medical outcomes may result from disease severity, treatment effectiveness, or chance. Because most outcome studies are observational rather than randomized, risk adjustment is necessary to account for case mix. This has usually been accomplished through the use of standard logistic regression models, although Bayesian models, hierarchical linear models, and machine-learning techniques such as neural networks have also been used. Many factors are essential to insuring the accuracy and usefulness of such models, including selection of an appropriate clinical database, inclusion of critical core variables, precise definitions for predictor variables and endpoints, proper model development, validation, and audit. Risk models may be used to assess the impact of specific predictors on outcome, to aid in patient counseling and treatment selection, to profile provider quality, and to serve as the basis of continuous quality improvement activities.

The influence of surgical operative experience on the duration of first ventriculoperitoneal shunt function and infection

The relationship of surgeon experience, measured by operative volume, to the outcomes of ventricular shunt treatment of hydrocephalus in children is not clear. This paper explores this relationship based on first ventriculoperitoneal shunts (VPS) implanted in English-speaking Canada during the period from April 1989 to March 2001. Three thousand seven hundred and ninety-four first VPS insertions, performed by 254 surgeons, were reviewed. Surgical experience was represented by the number of shunt operations performed during the study period by each surgeon prior to the date of the operation. The 6-month shunt failure risk for less experienced surgeons was 38%, compared to 31% for more experienced surgeons. This difference decreased to 4% at 60 months and 3% at 120 months (p = 0.001). The infection rate for initial shunt insertions was 7% for patients treated by more experienced surgeons and 9.4% for those treated by less experienced surgeons (p = 0.006). A relationship between surgeon experience and shunt outcome that appears to be based on the operative experience that a surgeon brings to a procedure is in keeping with clinical experience. This observation has implications for public policy, service planning and surgical mentorship during the earlier years of a surgeon's career.

Thymectomy for myasthenia gravis: analysis of controversies--patient management

BACKGROUND

Debate continues regarding the effectiveness of thymectomy in the treatment of nonthymomatous autoimmune myasthenia gravis primarily because there have been no controlled prospective studies. The debate is compounded by the lack of recognition that all thymectomies are not equal in extent or effectiveness and by the fact that all the studies are retrospective without common definitions of myasthenia gravis manifestations or response to therapy. In addition, the analysis of data is often inappropriate.

REVIEW SUMMARY

Evidence is presented demonstrating that the extent of the various thymic resectional techniques is very variable and often incomplete and that the more complete the thymic resection the better the results. The indications for thymectomy, the selection of the technique of the resection, the reoperations issue, the perioperative management of the myasthenia gravis patient, morbidity and mortality, and appropriate methods of outcome research are also reviewed.

CONCLUSION

In view of the impressive results associated with a complete thymic resection in the treatment of myasthenia gravis, patients should not be denied this operation because of lack of prospective proof to-date, and when a thymectomy is performed a total resection is indicated.

The volume-outcome relationship: from Luft to Leapfrog

Numerous reports have documented a volume-outcome relationship for complex medical and surgical care, although many such studies are compromised by the use of discharge abstract data, inadequate risk adjustment, and problematic statistical methodology. Because of the volume-outcome association, and because valid outcome measurements are unavailable for many procedures, volume-based referral strategies have been advocated as an alternative approach to health-care quality improvement. This is most appropriate for procedures with the greatest outcome variability between low-volume and high-volume providers, such as esophagectomy and pancreatectomy, and for particularly high-risk subgroups of patients. Whenever possible, risk-adjusted outcome data should supplement or supplant volume standards, and continuous quality improvement programs should seek to emulate the processes of high-volume, high-quality providers. The Leapfrog Group has established a minimum volume requirement of 500 procedures for coronary artery bypass grafting. In view of the questionable basis for this recommendation, we suggest that it be reevaluated.

Relationship of Hospital Volume to Outcome in Cardiac Surgery Programs in California

There are more than 120 cardiac surgery programs in California. More than half perform less than 200 coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) procedures per year. This study queried the state of California discharge abstract database to analyze the relationship between annual procedural volume and outcomes of all 119 nonfederal hospitals performing cardiac surgery during 1997 through 1999. Unadjusted in-hospital mortality for CABG surgery was 3.91 per cent (923 of 23,619) in hospitals performing fewer than 200 procedures per year and 2.09 per cent (496 of 23,704) in hospitals performing ≥500 procedures annually ( P = 0.001 by Chi-square). Similar findings were noted for CABG + valve and/or aneurysm and for valve procedures. Risk-adjusted CABG data obtained from 78 of 119 hospitals found that a significant difference persisted between a volume of <200 and ≥200 procedures per year ( P = 0.03 by t test). There was wider variation in outcome among lower-volume hospitals. However, many low-volume providers had excellent results. It is concluded that although volume is clearly related to outcome patient-related factors and process variables may be more important. Performance improvement programs should be developed to improve communication between providers with differing outcomes.

[Relation between activity volume and surgeon's results: myth or reality?]

The relationship between volume and surgical outcome seems logical, but needs to be demonstrated in the real world. A qualitative systematic review has been conducted to verify this hypothesis. Five systematic reviews and hundred original papers have been retrieved and analysed. Most of the studies were retrospective and used administrative data instead of medical charts. Moreover few studies involved a good case mix adjustment when comparing surgical units or individual surgeons. These methodological flaws do not allow any evidence based conclusions. Even though a positive relationship is suggested for surgical units, the relationship between volume and outcome was however less obvious for an individual surgeon. There is some evidence that the relationship varied greatly according to the specialty or the procedure evaluated. A new approach based on predictive scores comparing expected versus observed outcomes is mandatory and seems to be the best way to assess objectively the relationship between surgical volume and outcomes.

The role of hospital volume in coronary artery bypass grafting: is more always better?

OBJECTIVES

The goal of this study was to determine whether outcomes of nonemergent coronary artery bypass grafting (CABG) differed between low- and high-volume hospitals in patients at different levels of surgical risk.

BACKGROUND

Regionalizing all CABG surgeries from low- to high-volume hospitals could improve surgical outcomes but reduce patient access and choice. "Targeted" regionalization could be a reasonable alternative, however, if subgroups of patients that would clearly benefit from care at high-volume hospitals could be identified.

METHODS

We assessed outcomes of CABG at 56 U.S. hospitals using 1997 administrative and clinical data from Solucient EXPLORE, a national outcomes benchmarking database. Predicted in-hospital mortality rates for subjects were calculated using a logistic regression model, and subjects were classified into five groups based on surgical risk: minimal (< 0.5%), low (0.5% to 2%), moderate (2% to 5%), high (5% to 20%), and severe (> or =20%). We assessed differences in in-hospital mortality, hospital costs and length of stay between low- and high-volume facilities (defined as > or =200 annual cases) in each of the five risk groups.

RESULTS

A total of 2,029 subjects who underwent CABG at 25 low-volume hospitals and 11,615 subjects who underwent CABG at 31 high-volume hospitals were identified. Significant differences in in-hospital mortality were seen between low- and high-volume facilities in subjects at moderate (5.3% vs. 2.2%; p = 0.007) and high risk (22.6% vs. 11.9%; p = 0.0026) but not in those at minimal, low or severe risk. Hospital costs and lengths of stay were similar across each of the five risk groups. Based on these results, targeted regionalization of subjects at moderate risk or higher to high-volume hospitals would have resulted in an estimated 370 transfers and avoided 16 deaths; in contrast, full regionalization would have led to 2,029 transfers and avoided 20 deaths.

CONCLUSIONS

Targeted regionalization might be a feasible strategy for balancing the clinical benefits of regionalization with patients' desires for choice and access.

Extended thymectomy in myasthenia gravis: a team-work of neurologist, thoracic surgeon and anaesthesist may improve the outcome

OBJECTIVE

We reviewed our overall experience on 163 patients, affected by myasthenia gravis, who underwent thymectomy between 1976 and 1998. A comparison between the oldest series of 72 patients (January 1976-December 1992), referred by various neurologists and operated on through different approaches, and the last 91 patients (January 1993-December 1998), taking part in a strict diagnostic-therapeutical programme, was made.

METHODS

Anagraphic data, duration of symptoms, the surgical approach, necessity of respiratory assistance, the hospital stay, histopathological findings, preoperative and postoperative Osserman classification, as well as medications, were globally analyzed and then compared in the two groups.

RESULTS

Significant differences in the length of hospitalization (8.7 days vs. 4.2 days; P=0.00001) and in the prolonged intubation rate (18 vs. 0; P<0.000001) were observed in the most recent series. Patients in the pre-operative Osserman stage I and operated on in the second period had a higher complete remission rate at the univariate analysis (P<0.001 and P<0.0001, respectively). At the multivariate analysis the only parameter which affected the outcome was to be operated on in the second period (P<0.01).

CONCLUSIONS

Our experience confirms the role of the extended thymectomy in the treatment of myasthenia gravis. Whenever an extended thymectomy was performed through a complete sternotomy it was a quick procedure, with short hospitalization and acceptable cosmetic results. A careful pharmacological control of the myasthenic symptoms and the presence of team-work among neurologist, thoracic surgeon and anaesthesist in the peri-operative setting reduce the incidence of complications and might increase the efficacy of the thymectomy.

Clinical science research

Clinical science research incorporates the fields of clinical investigation and health services research. With a focus on the use of either human specimens or subjects, clinical investigation research projects translate knowledge gained from basic science research based on animal models for disease. The goal of clinical investigation is to develop new prevention, intervention, and therapeutic approaches to improve patient clinical outcomes. In contrast, health services research focuses on the improvement of the efficacy, cost-effectiveness, and outcomes of care. Health services research projects examine options to improve the health care delivery system, organization, financing, and reimbursement mechanisms in place today. The purpose of this article is to review common terminology and methodologic approaches that are used in clinical science research. The process of designing a research project is reviewed. Beginning with the development of a research question and hypothesis, the steps for successful completion of the project are discussed. Different study design approaches are presented with their respective strengths and weaknesses. The challenges associated with conducting a clinical research study are discussed, including the development of an appropriate sampling strategy, the designing of data collection, instruments, and the assurance of study data integrity. Possible threats to study validity and generalizability are assessed.One the major advantages of clinical research is that it offers an opportunity to study clinical questions in the clinical setting without the expenses of a basic research laboratory and basic science technology. Thus important clinical questions related to patient care, new technology assessment, clinical practice management, health care administration, or health policy may be addressed.

Excellence and low case volume: an example of the inapplicability of volume-based credentialing

BACKGROUND

Health care reform, public disclosure of hospital and surgeon-specific results, plus changes in reimbursement patterns have raised the specter of volume-based credentialing.

METHODS

Using The Society of Thoracic Surgeons Cardiac Database, we examined the data for all coronary artery bypass graft-only patients (n = 615) operated on by us from July 1991 to June 1997.

RESULTS

The observed mortality was 0.33% and the observed-to-expected ratio was 0.12 (p<0.005). Morbidity was low as well.

CONCLUSIONS

Excellent results can be obtained for patients undergoing coronary artery bypass grafting in the presence of both low surgeon and low hospital case volume.

The Society of Thoracic Surgeons National Database: current status and future directions

The Society of Thoracic Surgeons National Database, established seven years ago by thoracic surgeons for self improvement and quality assurance, now has 1,181,464 patients registered, including 897,914 coronary artery bypass operations. Risk-adjusted 30 day mortality for coronary bypass procedures, unadjusted mortality for other cardiothoracic procedures, unadjusted morbidity and length of stay as well as several processes of care are measured. There has been a progressive decrease in operative mortality and length of stay over the past seven years. Deaths, complications, and lengths of stay are stratified according to estimated risk of death. Definitions have been refined in conjunction with the American College of Cardiology. The database is being increasingly utilized for state analyses and is in demand by other organizations and third party carriers. Logistic regression analysis is now utilized for development of the risk models. The database has been useful for health care policy decisions and can be useful for our Professional Affairs Committee in their dealings with government. Other uses include measuring access to care and cost. Data quality improvement measures have been put in place, as well as data manager education. The General Thoracic and Congenital data acquisition packages are being modified and improved, and a goal is to begin collecting longitudinal data to demonstrate the long term efficacy of thoracic procedures. The data elements have been decreased from 500 to 200+ core variables for simplification. With the changing healthcare environment and emphasis on cost cutting, collecting valid data by a national specialty group enhances the monitoring of quality of care, thus protecting our patients from overzealous cutbacks. Data is essential to document the efficacy, quality and cost-effectiveness of the procedures we perform and is a necessary tool for each of us to have to assure the quality and continued success of our practices.

Specialists achieve better outcomes than generalists for lung cancer surgery

OBJECTIVE

A push toward care provided by generalists as opposed to specialists has occurred in the health-care marketplace despite a lack of provider specific outcome data. The objective of this study was to determine whether the outcome of patients undergoing lung cancer surgery is different between general surgeons (GSs) and thoracic surgeons (TSs).

DESIGN

Examination of data from a state-wide severity-adjusted administrative hospital discharge database.

SETTING/PARTICIPANTS

Patients undergoing lung cancer resection in all nonfederal acute care hospitals within South Carolina.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES

Mortality by specialty adjusted for case mix.

RESULTS

From 1991 to 1995, 1,720 resections for lung cancer were performed in South Carolina. One hundred thirty-seven cases were excluded because surgeons did not meet the predefined criteria for board certification, leaving 1,583 resections for analysis. One-half of lobectomies and nearly 60% of pneumonectomies were performed by GSs. Patients were similar in age, sex, gender, race, and the proportion in each severity of illness subclass. Mortality was significantly higher in patients who underwent lobectomy by GSs vs TSs (5.3% vs 3.0%; p<0.05) and in patients with extreme comorbidities (43.6% vs 25.4%; p=0.03) or age >65 years (7.4% vs 3.5%; p<0.05). Seventy percent of TSs performed > 10 cases in the series, whereas 75% of GSs performed <10 (p=0.05). Logistic regression analysis failed to identify any significant variable that might explain the mortality differences between TSs and GSs.

CONCLUSION

Mortality is lower for lung cancer resection when the surgery is performed by a TS.

Does volume really affect outcome? Lessons from the evidence

There is a prevailing consensus that the quality of health services can be improved by concentrating care in the hands of those providers who carry out larger volumes of activity. The substantial research literature indicates a positive volume-quality relationship. However, these conclusions are largely based on observational studies using administrative databases which are poorly adjusted for case mix. Better control for confounding shows that volume-quality effects in several cases may be an artefact. The research is also difficult to interpret because of the limited measurement of outcomes, poor analysis of the relative contributions of the clinician and the hospital levels, and the lack of clarity about the direction of cause and effect. Most research is insufficiently reliable to inform policy on the use of volume for credentialling or for the re-configuration of services.

Calculating risk and outcome: the Veterans Affairs database

The methodology used by the Department of Veterans Affairs for data collection and analysis to derive observed/expected mortality ratios in cardiac surgical patients is reviewed. The Department of Veterans Affairs' use of univariate and multivariate analysis to develop risk ratios for individual risk factors is described. Its experience with tracking observed/expected mortality and morbidity associated with cardiac surgery and length of hospital stays is reviewed. Results of the Department of Veterans Affairs study of the relationship between hospital surgical volume and observed/expected ratios are reported. Feasible goals for the improvement of the predictive capability of database models and the limitations affecting model accuracy are discussed.

Calculating risk and outcome: The Society of Thoracic Surgeons database

Various approaches to the calculation of medical risk are reviewed, including univariate analysis, additive methods, use of Bayes' theorem by The Society of Thoracic Surgeons, logistic regression, and neural networks. Strengths and weaknesses of the various approaches are evaluated. The use and importance of observed/expected ratios, the C statistic, and receiver operating curves are discussed. Specific requirements for the building of useful risk-calculation models are discussed, including the importance of the model set/test set method and the role of both numbers of patients and time frames in model building.

The bright future of cardiothoracic surgery in the era of changing healthcare delivery

We are currently at a crossroads in our specialty and in the American healthcare delivery system. The manner in which we approach the next 5 to 10 years will deeply affect the future of our specialty. Thoracic surgery has had many accomplishments during my 35-year career that have improved the healthcare for the American public and others. As cardiothoracic surgeons, we have a legacy to be proud of, and the future promises to be every bit as exciting. In spite of these tremendous advances and the potential for future scientific achievements, there has been considerable uncertainty and pessimism because of the changing structure of healthcare in the United States. This has largely been stimulated by increasing health-care expenditures leading to the development of health maintenance organizations in the hopes of curtailing expenses by competition and capitation. In addition to cost containment, managed care is likely to have an impact on the future workforce of cardiothoracic surgeons. Much of our future will be determined by how well we adapt to the changing environment and take charge of our destiny. The demand for performance information for managed care plans will be much greater than it has been in the past. It is, therefore, imperative that we collect data to reflect the quality and value of our work to ensure that significant quality is not being sacrificed for cost containment. We cardiothoracic surgeons must develop our own information management strategies so that we can be in control of our future. If we do this, I am confident that the future of cardiothoracic surgery will be a bright one indeed.